via Gukurahundi: Pius Ncube breathes fire – Southern Eye 20 January 2014 by Silas Nkala
FORMER archbishop of the Roman Catholic Church, Bulawayo Diocese, Pius Ncube, on Saturday attacked police, who blocked a Gukurahundi prayer meeting that had been scheduled to take place in the city, saying they had no mandate to stop people from meeting with God.
The prayer meeting had been organised by a Bulawayo-based pressure group, Ibhetshu Likazulu and was slated for the Baptist Church at 10am.
However, before the service could start, two plainclothed police officers arrived at the venue and declared that the gathering was illegal and asked those at the church to disperse.
“Our intelligence sources told us that your purported prayer meeting is not a meeting, but a demonstration and you can no longer go ahead with it,” one of the detectives said, much to the amazement of those gathered.
The meeting had been cleared by the police. Those gathered outside the Presbyterian Church conducted brief prayers following the announcement.
The blocking of the meeting did not go down well with the outspoken Ncube, who confronted the cops and asked them who they were to stop people from meeting with God in prayer.
“You cannot stop us from meeting with God,” Ncube said. “Who are you to do that?”
An Ibhetshu Likazulu official, Mbuso Fuzwayo, said the development was disappointing and an infringement of people’s rights to freedom of association as enshrined in the new Constitution.
“The police are telling us that their intelligence sources established that we are not conducting a meeting, but a demonstration, so our meeting should not go ahead,” he said.
Fuzwayo said the detectives indicated that the meeting was meant to prop up the MDCs’ political agenda instead of praying for Gukurahundi victims. When people did not disperse immediately, the two detectives called the anti-riot police, which quickly deployed to ensure no meeting took place.
MDC Matabeleland South chairperson Pilate Ndebele who was in attendance, said the blocking of a peaceful prayer meeting by the police was a sign that people were still not free to associate as they wished and express themselves freely even after the adoption of the new Constitution.
He encouraged the people of Matabeleland to pray for the victims and surviving relatives of the Gukurahundi massacres.
“We will pray anywhere, in the bush and in various venues, and denying us a chance to pray in remembrance of victims of the killings is like forbidding people from conducting their traditional rituals like imibuyiso or ukuthethela and that is very unfair,” he said.
“We want to pray for our relatives who suffered at the hands of perpetrators of the Gukurahundi genocide and we even encourage our people who are abroad to gather in various places across the world to pray in remembrance of them.
Ndebele said this was important because innocent people were slaughtered for nothing.
Among other people who had attended the intended prayer meeting were former National Healing, Integration and Reconciliation co-minister Moses Mzila-Ndlovu, MDC Bulawayo spokesperson Edwin Ndlovu, MDC Bulawayo chairperson Oscar Ncube and losing Bubi House of Assembly independent candidate Ginneva Sibanda.
COMMENTS
The Gukurahundis should understand they are on a mission impossible. You cant force the bereaved to keep quiet over their bereavement. Mugabe expects sympathy over Bridget’s death, but what about those he killed for failing to speak Shona or for carrying a dissident in their wombs? This is why I say, let the gukurahundi biitch Bridget die. After all she has been a waste of oxygen!!
How strange! It is ok for Mugabe seen wearing a church of Joanna Masawi church. Twangirai is ok when he goes to Nigeria for sexual stimulation. But Ndebele’s have no right to remember relatives who were bruataly butchered by the very same people. Ndebele’s you must rise up and fight this monster. During the liberation war you were the best amongst the best. What are you waiting for. We can and always have been. Stand up and fight. Look at what is happening around the world.lizahlala libakotha emuva yindabazeni.
Uncalled for blasting of Bridget!! I doubt you were part of the people who wanted to hold a prayer meeting, with such type of language. If among the congregants the intelligence guys find such bad mouthed guys they are bound to disband the gathering. Gukurahundi is a very dark patch in our history. Very regrettable!!!
whats good for the goose should be good for the gender. Let the Gukurahundi biitch die. We also lost our people through gukurahundi and they were no apologies, no condolences, no reburials, no birth certificates, no education, stateless citizens. I will never forget, I hate these gukurahundies with the whole of my heart. I wish them the worst, even gehenna in hell is not that harsh for them!
Those responsible (all of them) must be punished as it is a crime against humanity no argument.
Shut up @ike! There is no place on this forum for CIO operatives. Why would people who suffered so much show sympathy for that MONSTER in State House?!?!?!
And why should people need a permit for a prayer meeting you lunatic!
The greatest fear that the Gukurahundis have is that the world knows what evil they committed in Matabeleland! And the world WILL know! The people have not forgotten and never ever will!
Genocide was committed in Mashonaland, during the so called ‘liberation war’ in the 1970’s in Zimbabwe.. No one talks about the death of people during the late 70’s, these days, because most Zimbabweans today believe it was ‘war’. Well it was not war in the traditional sense of war, because 800 people were being killed each week in Manicaland and Mashonaland during that period and many mass graves were discovered after ‘independence’. What Zimbabweans do not acknowledge today is that the Rhodesian Front was guilty of genocide during that time just as ZANU is guilty of genocide today. These two parties have committed genocide and will face justice if not in this world, but certainly in the next. Gukurahundi was not the only genocide committed by ZANU, they started their killing spree in Mashonaland, prior to ‘independence’.
There is a difference, in war people get killed, kill or be killed is the order of the day. After 1980 we were no longer at war, Zanupf made up an imaginary war as a reason to punish the Ndebele, during the war poor black rural folk suffered the most and as is today Zanupf,s strategy of instilling fear in the rural folk by making examples of them by brutalising them in front of the whole village to force compliance and support is still their main campaign tool!
Absolutely correct. Zanla used public executions of the Povo at pungwes as a tool to instill fear and compliance at these forced meetings. Even entire families were killed as examples of been so called “sell outs” Nothing has changed. ZANU PF have never stopped doing this to today.
As for the so called police stopping this prayer meeting for commemorating another ZANU genocide. Well there is no police force in Zimbabwe, just Mugabe’s thugs dressed up in police uniform.
There is absolutely no comparison . Please don’t try and equate the the two.This is so typical of what dictators do after so called liberation struggles. The sooner africans realize the “war” was not about liberation it is about the wealth that comes after for the small elite few.Who are the disgustingly wealthy and how has the life of the normal african improved in comparison.You can believe the zanupfs , anc etc but nothing will improve for the average african , and in most cases like zimbabwe things get radically worse.Do you think there is a zanupf elite worrying where his/her next meal is going to come from. Their biggest worry is when will the receive their new government sponsered merc ,prado or BMW.
You forgot to also mention the precolonial genocide, rape, robbery and kinappings committed by those from Matabeleland in the areas inhabited by the Shonas.
why is the Gorvenment worried each time the gukurawundi issues are raised — Guilty guilty guilty they are haunted , who ever was involved wil forever live with that tormented mind till the issue has been resolved.only dialogue will lead to a peaceful resolution.Even if I hate a shona today it wont revive our beloved ones,God will punish those who are guilty.Let us all accept that sisembusweni ka herodi kuza dlula lokhu let us see who will laugh last.
There are people who were purely zanu pf at the time of gukurawundi,supporting their sons, fathers who were butchering the Ndebeles .They selebrated when they headr about how their fathers , husbands , sons were butchering the Ndebeles.Some of those people now want Mandebele support them outs their god father whom they were praising.Just ask yourself -what party card did mr tswangirai hold during the gukurawundi period obviously as a shona he was cheering when the zanu pf thugs were knifing pregnat women.
@maxesh Nzima. Absolutely correct. I attended an MDC conference in London in the early 2000s. Tsvangirai was speaking and Sekai Holland was there too. Towards the end, a little old man at the back stood up and asked, in Ndebele, what MDC intended to do about the atrocities in the 1980s as he had lost family who were murdered, and was himself badly beaten. Morgan said he intended to do nothing as removing Mugabe was a priority and talk of war crimes tribunals could jeopardize the process!
Pf! Whose priority? Not the old man’s priority – That’s for sure!
That is the mentality we are dealing with!
Root Cause Analysis:
Q: What is the problem?
A: Civilian deaths in the early 1980s.
Q: What caused the civilian deaths:
A: Rebels (a.k.a dissidents) and army units pursuing the rebels.
Q: Why were the rebels fighting?
A: No clear explanation has ever been given but the most popular view is that they were unhappy that their party lost the 1980 elections and wanted to make the country ungovernable and thereby take power for their party.
Q: Why were civilians killed?
A: The rebels killed those civilians who did not support them. They enjoyed some civilian support and/or used guerilla tactics to get support. Those civilias who supported the rebels were treated as bona fide rebels by the army leading to deaths on both sides.
Q: Who is to blame for civilian deaths?
A: The rebels- because the civilian deaths only occured in areas where the rebels operated. Other areas of the country were completely unaffected as there was no reason for the army units to operate there. Interestingly these were areas where the rebels did not have civilian support.
Q: How did the rebellion end?
A: Through a political agreement which gave a blanket amnesty- (no questions asked and no answers given), to the rebels, and civilian collaborators and the army units for everything that happened during the rebellion. These provisions were enacted by the Zimbabwean parliament and cannot be revoked without starting another cycle of violence.
Lesson: Rebellions the world over can only be stopped by a short sharp military response- otherwise they can drag the whole country down. No apology is due and none can be given- outside the one given in the amnesty enacted by parliament which said: ‘we know that laws were broken and the participants should be punished by society but we are forgiving all the players in the rebellion for the good of the country.’
The greatest lesson is that another rebellion will bring about the same results with more disastrous consequences.
What a load of rubbish rubbish rubbish. The Fifth Brigade were trained by Mugabe’s democratic, freedom loving friends the, ” North Koreans ” to kill without mercy in order to attain a political objective. Nothing more, nothing less. What Rubbish.
Ndebvu, you are a very ignorant Shona Gukurahundi fool. The reasons for the rebellion are well known. ZIPRAs who abandoned the army were forced out through discrimination. Are you not aware that Mugabe wanted a one party state in the 1980s? How was he going to have a one party state with a very strong opposition party in the form of PF ZAPU?
What about the 1979 ZANU Grand Plan? why has ZANU PF not investigated this and laid it to rest? What about the killing of people for not speaking Shona? What about the pregnant women? How many of those so-called dissidents surrendered at the time of the amnesty? So few people who surrender, how do they justify such overrkill?
You are a very big fool; a tribalist and a two legged-devil!!
Ndebvu Mukomichi these shallow explanations are not acceptable by any standard. Armed bandits deserve no mercy but soldiers who cut open woumbs of pregnant women citing tribal wars of the 18th and 19th century do not deserve to live amongst civilized societies. They can continue to live as long as they have an upper hand militarily and they live forever in fear because of a possible call by justice. Their fight has not ended as they are called upon to justify and get ready to defend their satanic actions all their lives. If a swift military action was necessary why did t a “political solution” that “ended” the rebellion work? Very shallow arguement of a cannibal indeed.
wan`t the so called unity accord premised on the basis of the Gukurahundi massacres,if so why ban the commemorations then?Hypocrites!
The problemj is that those who were involved in killing of ABANTU (the Ndebele) are still in high positions. They are also been deployed in Civil posistions in Ndebele Regions.So they will stop at nothing to cover their tracks. What they did on this prayer sessions is a sign that they still continuing their Gukurahundi. People were not allowed to pray.
Its simple; if your case is a justified one, there will never be a reason to duck and dive, hide and suppress those who seek justice. You only hide and suppress because you had no case, so you are afraid of being found out.
GUKURAHUNDIS ARE GUILTY – PERIOD!!
Ndebvu, from what page are you reading. Zimbabwe needs healing. It needs the truth. It needs acknowledgment of its sins. Otherwise we are not going anywhere. That whole 1980’s tragedy needs to be uncovered for what it was-wholesale cold blooded murder-talked about, acknowledged by ZPF as a gross sin and they must ask the Ndebele’s for forgiveness and come to some reparation agreement. For surely the blood of those innocent people is crying out from the ground to a just God and our ground has become cursed because of all the blood shed in this nation: before, during and since that time. Open a bible a see what God says about bloodshed and violence. I pray for your heart to softened and your eyes to be opened. For only the truth will set us free.
@NBS, you are right- Zimbabwe needs healing. So why bringing this issue now? Let it remain a dark part of our history. Talking and reminding each other daily won’t bring back the dead and nobody is there to compensate the loss. Let’s focus on the future and try to avoid the evil past.
Nothing makes my blood boil more than Shona people siding with ZANU PF on gukurahundi.
We in in Mthwakazi are quite clear of the guilty party. The guilty party is ZANU PF (Mugabe, Mnangagwa, Nkala, Sekeramayi and Perence Shiri; NOT the Shona people.
But what I find difficult to understand is why the Shonas ALWAYS conflate themselves with ZANU PF when it comes to this matter of Gukurahundi?
It is common knowledge that many Shonas would like to see the end of ZANU PF rule. Many vote for MDC-T, instead of Mugabe. But why is it that whenever it comes to the Gukurahundi issue – they are one with Mugabe on this one? Why?
No matter how hard we try to detribalise the Gukurahundi issue, Shonas always tribalise it by supporting ZANU PF and juxtaposing it against the 1890s tribal wars?
For this reason alone, I think splitting of the country and seceeding as uMthwakazi is highly justified. We have to stop pretending because we will never be one on these issues!!!
I am a shona who saw the massacres in realtime. I do not support Mugabe or zanu pf. Do not label all shonas with the same bad name. i lived in Bulawayo and have as many friends who are ndebele as shona. We are zimbabweans and should love one another. The common enemy is Mugabe and his cronies. they indeed killed many innocent people and have ranskacked the Zimbabwean economy though theft of resources.
Tundie, you are right that Mugabe is the problem. That is what most of us in Mthwakazi always try to point out. But alas, it looks like we are not winning because, with the exception of the few including you, the majority of the Shonas choose to be self-appointed Mugabe/ZANU PF spokespersons whenever the gukurahundi issue comes up for discussion. This is our problem; and is the main reason we dont see eye to eye and would rather split the country.My advise to those Shonas who support Mugabe over gukurahundi is this; as long as you continue with your soft spot for Mugabe over Gukurahundi, just forget it; you will never defeat him. You will never defeat him because your apparent support merely causes disunity and enmity with uMthwakazi; which indirectly strengthens Mugabe. Mthwakazi are not going to unite with Shonas in fighting Mugabe only in situations that suit the Shona. We should unite in all cases of human rights abuses, not selectively!!
See the MLO website my friend. We know what you say and will never allow reciprocal killings, or even the slightest discrimination based on tribe – two wrongs NEVER make a right.
There is even a star on our flag dedicated to the Shona people who live in Matabeleland.
But we can never be one with Mugabe and his Gukurahundi supporters. Try to understand what has happened.
The reason why a few Shona people are turned off or appear against reviving the gukurahundi issue is because a few among Ndebeles blame Shonsa by generalisation.Come on lets be serious, why should Tsvangirai prioritise the gukurahundi issue. Even Joshua Nkomo or Dabengewa have never prioritised the issue.Some people need to be reminded that ZANU(PF) won the 1980 elections free and fair, and alarge majority of people supported ZANU(PF). The mistake some of my Ndebele people make is to assume everyone who supported ZANU(PF) in the 1980s, also cheered Mugabe’s gukurahundi. Nothing could be further from the truth.
It is clear a lot a people were brutalised or killed during the gukurahundi. Most who suffered were civilians. It was excessive response to a real rebellion. Its false to say there as no rebellion.
Tafadzwa,
Face the truth. Is it not Shona people who bring up the 1890s tribal wars, whenever the issue of gukurawundi is mentioned? So what do you mean Mthwakazi generalises against Shona people?
If the reasons for Gukurawundi, as we are told are that it was after dissidents who were intent on toppling a democratically elected government; then how is gukurahundi related to the 1890s tribal wars?
Shonas who argue this way should answer these questions. Its not the Ndebele who tribalise gukurahundi, it is Shona people, and you know it!!
Mthwakazi, the issue is this; if we cant make Mugabe pay for his gukurahundi genocide, his children will have to pay.
Bona, Chatunga, and Robert jnr are still young, they have a long life ahead of them – we will hunt them down until they pay for their father’s sins. We could also seek the children of Mnangagwa, Sekeramayi, Nkala, and Shiri – should we fail to lay our hands on the real culprits.
Why shouldnt we, when we as uMthwakazi are being made to pay for the 1890s wars we know nothing about? If we have to apologise for things that happened before our time, why shouldnt these little gukurahundi Mugabes do the same, I ask????????
Our time will come
http://www.matabeleliberation.org/
Mugabe and his henchmen just like Hitler must be brought before the courts. We know that they will receive the death sentence and send a cleared message no more will we accept this type of uncivilized behavior.
MLO and the bona fide people of Matabeleland totally reject the attempt to make them part of Zimbabwe. We reject the resultant constitution, in whose creating we had no part.
We call upon Britain to countermand the Matabeleland Order in Council and the rule by ‘Right of Conquest’. We call upon the Zimbabwe regime to refuse to be Proxy of Britain and co-operate with the people of Matabeleland in seeking a dialogue with Britain leading to independence of Matabeleland and peaceful and beneficial neighborliness. The Zimbabwe/ Mashonaland people rightly hate domination by other people, therefore should not seek to dominate us and expect us to like it. Any attempt to perpetuate the domination can only end in tragedy for both countries (Mashonaland/Zimbabwe and Matabeleland/ Mthwakazi).
Finally, we congratulate the people of Matabeleland for boycotting this Zimbabwe program we further encourage them to continue the boycott of all Zimbabwe programs. In that regard, we encourage you to register as voters but boycott the elections for your independence, the Independence of Matabeleland. Those from Matabeleland who want you to vote will deliver nothing, just like their predecessors who have been part of the Zimbabwe parliament since 1980. They will gain what accrues to them, the MP salary and the pecks. If you give them issues of concern to you, they will tell you like some before ‘you are cry babies’, ‘it is not only Matabeleland needing development other provinces are in a similar situation’ even tell you off ‘ I do not deal with village politics’.
The situation will continue as is, posts in parastatals will be filled by people from outside Matabeleland, border posts will continue being manned by people from outside, no resident of Plumtree will be employed at that border post, no bona fide citzen of Beitbridge will be found among those manning that border post, schools will still be manned by people who do not know the local languages and cultures, children will continue to fail enmasse, radio stations will continue to broadcast in one language, NUST, LSU will continue enrolling students from outside Matabeleland. It has been like that since 1980 there is no promise of a change, change will come if you make it, by your boycott in favour of independence.
Register and boycott, the resultant government will have no legitimacy over Matabeleland and a massive boycott will be audible to all the International community.
Seku ntwela eZansi!
T D Mkwananzi
Chairman Matabeleland Liberation Organization
MLO
“mugabe in 1982,in parliament said,some of the measures we shall take are measures which will be extra..legal.an eye for an eye and an ear for an ear,may not be adequate in our circumstances .we might very well demand two ears for one ear and two eyes for one eye.as if these words were not enough in the same year,at a …rally in norton,he said’we have to deal with this problem quite ruthlessly…dont cry if your relatives get killed in the process,where man and woman provide food for the dissidents,when we get there we eradicate them.we dont defferentiate who we fight because we cant tell who is a dissident and who isnt.to those who deny his involvement judge for your self.for the sake of peace ,all is fair in war and love.
Lets talk things as they are, It was wrong to kill so many civilians just because they did not vote for zanu ,But to be honest i suffered the same fate as the ndebele speaking pple ,We cant solve a wrong by another wrong, Mugabe cannot say a simple sorry to the pple of matebeleland and the midlands, Mugabe chose to rig elections and nikuv $1oo,000 000 than let Tsvangirayi win elections and compensate gukurahundi victims ,he even went to tell him to go to hell ,We all going to die one day ,After all who is BRIDGET?
@MLO Chairman, Mkwananzi
Trace the history of 3 former Rhodesia Federation countries:Malawi, Zambia, Zimbabwe. The western side of these three countries has emigrants from Chaka Zulu as follows: Malawi-Lake Nyasa region: The war mongering Ngoni led by Zwangendaba who trekked northbound in the 1860’s ahead of Mzilikhazi and the Sotho Queen.-these have since been pacified by the Nyanja-the original Malawians: Thnks to Dr.Kamuzu Banda. Zambia’s west has the Sotho from Drakernsburg mountains and the Balozwi from Zimbabwe (between them, the Sotho led by their queen invaded Barotseland in the 1870’s, but were later defeated by Lewanika, the Balozwi descendent)In 1964,Kaunda brought the british protectorate of Barotseland under Zambia-until today and their secessionist strategies have come to naught: Barotseland was founded on Zambian soil thats the main defeating factor. Then Zimbabwe has the Matabili of Mzilikhazi who invaded the country around 1840 escaping from cattle-rustling headhunters-Boer Peterson and Co.+ Chaka Zulu. Matabili saked the Kalanga(Torwa), and BaLozwi to found their kingdom. By 1893, the British brought back the land to what it was before the Matabili invasion except they took the reigns.By 1980, Zimbabwe was given back to its original founding descendents.( Did you know the likes of DR.Joshua Nkomo are actually Kalanga, therefore Torwa by descent and therefore possesing Shona DNA not Matabili?)They were fighting for the return of the country of their forefathers,not for anything else stupid. One visit to the Khami Ruins, Matonjeni, Naletale ruins and the cloud of ignorance will peel off. Lets not befog our minds. Maybe folks should stop daydreaming , draw family trees back to their 7th generation ancestors, and move on under proper enlightenment. This hype about dividing Zimbabwe is misplaced, and has more disasterous consequencies. Folks are implored to stay clear of cessesionist agendas.
Rubbish. Mthwakazi shall return kuphela. Uyathanda noma kawuthandi!!
Or what? What are you going to do if we DON’T steer clear of secessionist policies? What? Kill us? Drip burning plastic on us? Break our wrists? What? Tell me……
P.S. It’s “secessionist” not “cessesionist.” That’s what auto-correct is for. Use it!
My Assessment:
I note that Shame knows/understands the true history of our country- I applaud him for that. Mzilikazi and his descendants were fleeing from Chaka when they landed on Zim soil. There was no nation called Mtwakazi or whatever name others may want to give western Zim. Our elders have told us the history of madzviti/ armed raiders who forcibly robbed the Shona of food, livestock, beautiful women and children to build up their numbers. There has never been an apology for these actions and none is being demanded.
UNITY IS THE WAY: The way forward is for all Zimbos to work together as one to build the nation. As I see it- any intention or action to divide Dzimbahwe will meet a fate that is worse than the 1980s rebellion. It will be treated as an invasion by the descendants/ yesteryear citizens of a foreign power- and all true Zimbos will fight it to the last person because our history and heritage demand it. Many people will perish- I can only hope it never comes to that, but if needs be then so be it.
About RGM- his greatest weakness is his ability to forgive and accommodate everyone- i.e.
1. Reconciliation in 1980,
2. Unity Accord in 1987,
3. Waiting 20 years before taking back the land,
4. GPA in 2008,
For these reasons many Zimbos love him and vote for him again and again as evidenced by his electoral victories since 1980.
So let me get this straight:
Ndebele = Colonists
Kalanga = Colonists
Tonga = Colonists
Whites = Colonists
Coloureds = Colonists
Asians = Colonists
Basically anyone not Zezeru (who originate in the Great Lakes region by the way!)is a Colonist and deserves no civil rights?
Ok…..sure! Let us all stay together with the ENLIGHTENED Shonas in Matabeleland then. Let us be. You have the best agricultural land and much gold and many, many diamonds in Mashonaland so you don’t need us eh?
Leave us and together, we will build our Zambezi pipeline, increase gold production, develop our gas fields, increase copper production, revive the textile sector, build new power stations at Hwange, revive commercial agriculture, encourage FDI and job creation by welcoming international business, improve health care, engage with the international community, promote freedom of speech and human rights, improve education and, most of all, BE free!
Try not to have a slave-master attitude my Shona friend. There is no need for it. It is now the 21st Century.
@Nkiwane
‘Leave us alone to develop “our gass fields…our coal fields…” Are these not possesive pronouns suggesting legitimate rights to ownership? This is where folks need guidence.Geagraphy says it takes thousands of years for organic matter (flora and fauna) to rot into sedimentary rocks and produce coal,methane… This Mtwakazi thing popped up in 1840, exactly 174 years ago.You tell me which of Mzilikhazi’s imports from Vaaal has so far rotted into coal and methane? Do you see my point? When Mzilikhazi sat down on Matonjeni rocks to take a breather from his non-stop flight from boer Simpson, the methane gass and the coal were all there.These are the kinds of posssessive pronouns that the British misplaced by floating high-flying phrases like, “white owned farms…” You convince us Nkiwane, kindly convince us, what is it that Mzi brought in 1826 that has so far decomposed into methane gass? Huh? Shame is not sold in any beerhall, or pharmacy with a doctor’s prescription my friend. Its for free! Have some.
In the same vein, where do you and many of you Gukurawundi Shona kind get the idea that Zimbabwe is for Shonas. The name Zimbabwe is just a misnomer, which should be discarded – its misleading many Shonas into a false sense of belonging; a false sense of achievement.
@Mthwakazi
Pardon me, the correct name is “Dzimbahwe”,though it does not imply this thesis is challenging the wisdom of naming the country “Zimbabwe” (connoting singularity-maybe its this unity vision) Either way, it more or less means the same thing. Dzimbahwe in the original 6th century Dzimbahwe lingua means ‘houses of stone’-connoting plurality. (‘dzi’ is stem category 10, mupanda wegumi, connoting plularity, and “mba” is short suffix for ‘imba’/house ;then ‘bwe’ is another shortened suffix for ‘ibwe’/stone/’dombo’ Also check “Mapungubwe” across the Limpopo-a 6th century capital city of this country. “Ma” is stem category 6, mupanda wetanhatu, implying plurarity, and ‘pungu’is plural suffix for ‘binga’/mapinga (meaning cleft/ haven forest/sanctuary) then ‘bwe’ as explained before. Mapungubwe was capital city (Nzanga/muzinda wamambo) in 6th century connoting a collection of houses of stones. It was then moved to Dzimbahwe (also houses of stone)Also note the plurality (Great Zimbabwe)between 9th century and 14 th century AD. There are other such houses of stones existent during then such as Khami (commercial capital between 11th-17th century), Nharetare/(now)Naletale (30 km south of Shangani) founded around 17th century. “Nhare” connots watchmanship suggesting it was founded as a military outpost. The stone masonry (Dzimbahwe bond) indicates consistence and similarity of engineering culture which corroborates historical evidence on the lands and peoples between the two rivers. A point of correction is that Dzimbahwe was never, is never and will never be for the Shona people alone. The present day (what you want to call the Shona) are just a branch of the founding forefathers of this nation-the Torwa and BaLozwi(VaRozvi/or Sackers if you want to know where degrees in violence come from).These forefathers sired the Venda,the Nambya, the Kalanga,the Karanga (you will find these twovery silly for competing over spellings for nothing really), the Korekore, the Nyika, the Buja, the Zezuru (your mistake is to think Zezuru means shona-shona should be more related to the Venda and Rozvi who were mistakenly heard by Mzilikhazi as if they were saying “tina seamaSvina” instead of “tiri kusvina hura hwemhuka” Those folks in the northern and eastern side just drifted away from the core capital cities a little bit-and they went as far as Nampula in Mozambique where they named a Nampula river Save after the one close to Masvingo eDzimbahwe.You will be surprised if you ask all these folks to draw their family trees to the, and stand by the grave of their 20th generation forefather,that they will all gather at Nharetare, by the 40th, they will gather at Dzimbahwe, and by the 100th, they will all gather at Mapungubwe. I hope the explanation surfices to clear the fog in your eyes.That name Zimbabwe is not misplaced, there is no misnoma in it. It is a centuries old name of things that are seen, things that can be touched , and felt; the heritage of an entire people. To ask people to discard it is like asking children to cut their umbilical code from their mother’s womb, to disown their surname, their father.Woe betides such a man who does not owner his fathers, his days will be short on mother earth, and calamity follows him whithersoever he goeth. And for what mfowethu? to appease the hallucinations of a few daydreamers? a thief tries by all means to disposses, coming by day, by night, by hook, by crook, wearing sheepskins or the catholick priest’s frock. But he will always be seen by his lack of depth, his stuttering and cursing mouth, and the folly that procedeth thencefrom. Vanity it is indeed, said King Solomon-all is vanity-it will come to naught! Shall Rome be called Ndabambi Kraal becoz two comatose cucumbers going by the names Mtwakazi and Nkiwane have set their feet on the graves of Alexander the Great, or Aristotle the Greatest and disecreted the ruins of Rome? Nigh! It was told to Nkiwane that shame is as free and ubiquitous a commodity as oxygen.People should kindly acquire it without waiting for a doctor’s prescription. So dear folk comrades, have some!
@ Nkiwane
Corrections!
Correct, straight answer
Ndebele = colonists Yes! 1840,gang leader Mziligazi
Kalanga = colonists no -Torwa descend + Ndebele victims.
Tonga = colonists no- Mbanje merchants since 6th cent.
Whites = colonists Yes! 1890,gang leader Cecil Rhodes
Colourds= colonists No! Pse. don’t be silly!
Asians = colonists No! Pse. don’t be stupid!
Prescription: Nkiwane to kindly note that colonial guilty is not a collective project for careless sharing and distribution like donor assistence. Stick to the rules. (1)stand by your guilt (2) no hiding behind fingers, (3) no mudslinging of innocents! and(4) no turning of victims into perpetrators!
Ndebvu
1. Shonas did not drop down from the heavens above to occupy Zimbabwe. They came from the north of Africa and invaded abathwa lands. It does not matter how long back this happened. An land invader remains a land invader, no matter when they committed their atrocities. So stop lecturing us on you Gukurawundi shallow Shona Chigwedere self-serving history;and
2. Inkosi uMzilikazi did not move up north of river Ngulukudela (Limpopo)to the land between the two rivers because he was fleeing from inkosi uShaka. This is a lie, you were taught in your gukurawundi history. King Mzilikazi moved up north due to the Boers who had invaded his people in their new settlements around Pretoria/Tshwane and Rustenburg. Were it not for the Boers, they would have never relocated northwards.
LEARN PROPER HISTORY; NOT SHALLOW GUKURAWUNDI HISTORY!!
@Mthwakazi
You have admited two things:that Mzilikhazi was fleeing from Boer invaders.and that he therefore is a colinialist.Now this is good for national healing.An admission and a sorry!You are begining to talk! But to put matters correctly,The Boer Leader’s name was Simpson, and he was chasing after cattle Mzilikhazi had raided from Boer Peterson’s laager, didn’t I say before? Again,the area is not near Pretoria as you say, it is exactly between the Vaal River and the Transkei, both tributeries to the Orange River.That, for you and me is home mfowethu.This name Mthwakazi was derived from the abandoned temporary home between these two tributaries whose kraal was called Ndabambi.I thought you should also know that prior to Ndabambi, uncle Mzi was a Zulu kingdom western regiment commander resident at the eastern foot of the Drakernsburg mtns, in Zululand.He only left in a huff around 1800 with exactly 300 of Shaka’s assegai crews,when he decided to misappropriate Shaka’s cattle entrusted in his hands. After crossing the drakensburg mtns due west and establishing his first renegade kraal, Boer Peterson hit him hard, dispossesing him of all of Shaka’s cattle. Mzi returned the favour, killing man children women…this is where all the madness began…and ran to Ndabambi by the Vaal river. Boer Simpson then heard of this tragedy and followed up.mzi had gone hunting for kudus when Boer Simpson pillaged his camp and took everything, infact, until today, Mzi does not know who hit him, all he could do was run, run, and run further north, and cross the Limpopo. Its not like cruel people just invaded the Vaal from nowhere and pillaged innocent folks.Guilt was following him. Now back to school my bro,this Mthwakazi thing as you can see, was imported from the Vaal between 1826(exodus)and 1840, its like the British bringing themselves somewhere and calling this place little England, New Oleans, Australia, New Zealand or something after killing all the Injuns and Aborigins and pretending nothing happened. Nasty colonial business all that.
Of the Kalanga, kindly be tutored well. The Kalanga people are descendents of the Torwa, who also fathered the Zezuru,Manyika,Nambya,Buja, Karanga…Two Torwa capital cities Naletale (17th century) and Khami (commercial hub of Dzimbahwe since 11th century) bear testimony,Oh, and Matonjeni, the Torwa’s shrine of their God ‘Mwari’The difference between the Kalanga and the present day Zezuru is that the Kalanga remained fixed around the ancestoral lands whilst the Zezuru, Manyika… moved to higher ground (Zezuru means ‘seZulu’ in Zulu. Do you want me to go over the Great Zimbabwe Ruins, and Mapungubwe Ruins story over and over again until you understand Bantu migration and racial eugenics? The stone masonry works should demacate to you kingdoms and peoples. Most important point is the understudy of Bantu migration before pitching battles with haystalk spears. By the way, did you also know at one point, the Namibians, Angolans, Batswana’s, the Zululs were one time citizens of Mapungubwe? And did you know all these people travled from Central Africa-mostly running away from beastly kings like queen Nzinga of grate lakes region (Uganda) who ate human flesh? They all travvelled due south before branching off;the Zulus trecking due east, the BaLozwi of Angola, Namibia drifting due west and so on…and so on… One question I would leave you Mthwakazi (or is it Transkei-Vaal)in light of all this knowledge of Bantu migration , cattle rustling and racial uegenics,who do you choose as your blood brother and who is you blood enemy?Who shall you fight and who shall you comfort? What be the basis? Have you ever questioned the wisdom of people who talk of unity of the bantu people? Why they say tina sibantu semunye?Tiri vanhu vamwe? We are one people? Would you have traced this beyond Mzilikhazi and his assegai? Maybe you don’t even know Mzilikhazi was a Zulu in the first place, and all Zulus were Mapungubweans.Mzi was simply coming home, to king and country. To be ruled , not to rule. Each time Rhodes went back to UK, he was the king’s subject, not founder of the Rhodesian Federation. Kindly take notes. Civilisation came all the way from across the pacific to enlighten bright minds.
Not withstanding some inaccuracies here and there, at least you seem to be dumping your Shona gukurahundi inspired history for a change. Thats progress!!
Is it not comic to say Mzilikhazi was not running away from Shaka. There is no record in history indicating Shaka held a colourful farewell party to send Mzilikhazi north-west-wishing him well and God speed. You know that Mthwakazi. Why call Diabolos Angel Gabriel? Mzilikhazi commited military sedition punishable by death, and worse still, he took Shaka’s cattle and the king’s concubines. Hearding due west accross the Drakernsburg mountains was an attempt to evade and escape by creating angles between him and Shaka’s head hunters. You know Shaka punished sedition by death, and History has it on record that Shaka assigned his famous headhunter Dingane to treck Mzilikhazi down and bring him alive-Shaka wanted to finish him off by himself. Except a supervening impossibility saved Mzilikhazi-who was under close reconnaisence by Shaka’s runners. Dingane was assigned to handle another renegade Soshangane who had escaped due north north first. The rest is common: Dingane crossed the Limpopo, Soshangane hid in the Tsetse infested mashlands and forests of the Gaza province of Mozambique and Zimbabwe. Dingane’s headhunters were decimated by nagana and malaria: Dingane returned empty handed, and Shaka choped off his head in a fit of rage( the way Mzilikhazi hacked off Nkulumane’s head as punishment for a palace coup whilst he was being mercilessly battered at the ill-fated Mosi-Oa-Tunya Barotseland invasion campain)Thats how Mzi survived. But the prosecutor’s death does not take away the cattle-rustling charges.
Ndebvu
We will never unite with ultra Shona tribalists – never, Period. Mugabe is a gonna – its time we looked into each other eye ball to eye ball!!
This Ndebvu is dreaming. During the 1970’s Zanla did in Mashonaland what they did in the1980’s in Matebeleland. No spirit medium or chief supported them until they started burning families in hut and cutting off lips, breast and other parts.
Shame – thank you for shedding more light on the history of one of Chaka’s runaway generals. Knowledge is power to those who are not perishing but is wasted like ‘pearls before swine’ to others.
Other comments:
1. It is true that Shonas did not drop from the sky- but then they have never sought to exclude any Zimbabwean from belonging to the nation of Zimbabwe. All are welcome to stay as Zimbos- the problem comes when a mafikizolo tribe with a well-known history of violence decides to use the force of arms to divide the country and claim ownership of a part of it. That is where the other peace-loving tribes stand strong- and say No!!!. So I say keep the country as one- regardless of the origins of each tribe. Yes you ran away from the boers and were given refuge but that does not allow you to take over as you tried to do before the coming of Rhodes.
2. Zanla’s supposed crimes in the 1970s: True Zimbos understand that this was a liberation war. Yes, things happened just as they did during the rebellion which was a seccessionist war. There is no need for reparations – unity, peace and devolpment are the benefits at the end.
Ndebvu
1. Still you continue with your Gukurahundi upbringing, despite the facts. Who has ever tried to take over Zim through the force of arms? If you are referring to the dissident Gukurahundi era, the facts are straight foraward. ZANU PF declared it wanted a one party state; this is on record and is not secret. Naturally to achieve this, they had to destroy the opposition, which in this case the strongest opposition was PF ZAPU.ZANU raided PF ZAPU offices and confisticated all their documents; but still they could not proved their case in court as a result the lost. Lookout Masuku and Dumiso Dabengwa were acquitted by the Highcourt judge twice. They couldnt even touch Joshua Nkomo to arrest him, because they knew they were creating stories about him and nothing else. They all out efforts to continuously suppress all talk or discussion over this issue clearly shows that they are guilty and dont want the truth to out. I can assure, you and even you, you will agree that ZAPU under Dumiso Dabengwa today would not mind reopening the Gukurahundi issue in order to get down to the truth. But alas, as we all know ZANU PF will never want this reopened, why? If they were correct about the dissident issue, they should not duck and dive, to facilitate the truth and lay the matter to rest. Instead they hide behind the 1987 Gukurahundi Unity Agreement, which was signed under military duress; and
2. Seccession is a democratic right in all civilised democracies; Sotland is a case in point. Its part and parcel of one’s democratic right to choose how they should be governed.So far, those arguing for seccession have never used any force or military effort, except in Gukurahundi ZANU PF and your own imagination. Instead, they have opted for the democratic route, which is allowed by the constitution. You absolutely have no right of imposing your own views on how I should be governed – this is not your country alone. Your Gukurahundi theories of Shonas being owners of the country is not only primitive, but is typical Central African/Burundian/Rwandain thinking which led to the massacres – incidentally where you people also hail from!!
Ndebvu
P/S
Again, you are wrong. Some (the majority) Shonas, through ZANU PF have since 1980 sought to exclude all other Zimbabweans from national Affairs – this is a fact. I lived through the 1970s, never in my life in those days did I hear this “we are the majority” mantra being used again and again these days to justify domination of every facet of life in Zimbabwe by one tribe; even in provinces of Matebeleland South and Matebeleland North, where they the Shona are a minority. This only started after Mugabe and ZANU PF came to power in 1980.
Had it been the case that Shonas dominate only those provinces in which they are obviously the majority, Matland people would not have a problem. But instead, they also dominate in the civil service, police, schools, etc etc even in Matebeleland, where they are a minority. They go around in our provinces expecting us to speak to them in their Shona language, yet we dont do that to them when we are in Mashonaland;
They are very exclusionary in every sphere of life and they have never hesitated to tell us that, there will never be a Ndebele president.They daily lecture us about going back to South Africa; as if they themselves dropped down from the heavens. They are pieces of shiit, if you ask me.
Cumulatively, all this is what has led to the germination of seccessionist ideas; ideas of a separate country. The Shonas are whooly responsible for this. It does not matter how much of a frency you make out of it – its your fault; live with it – PERIOD!!!!
In addition- Who was Zanla- They were our children, brothers and sisters fighting to liberate us under extremely harsh conditions. Anyway Smith’s army committed worse atrocities, but it does not count or matter does it?? I wonder why.
Bottom Line:
If you want your own country or to secede then you have to retrace your steps and go back to Zululand. Your forefathers will give you Mzilikazi’s kraal- otherwise Dzimbahwe is indivisible.
On languages and Shona domination etc- every Zimbo including yourself, (if you are a Zimbo), is free to live where they want. The whole country belonged to all its inhabitants before the Zulus’ arrival- so there is no need for Mat’land or Mash’land division- outside admin purposes. You can live where you want without stopping others from doing the same.
About the Scotts- I do not know their history or their claim to independence but I am very sure about the Zulus, who entered Zim as uninvited guests, and their descendants. On this issue, many people agree with the RGM way.
RGM quest for One party state- This was supposed to benefit the Patriotic Front made up of ZPF and PFZ and Nkomo was agreeable becoz he also wanted it for himself. Trouble started when he hid those weapons on PFZ farms, with the intention of starting a rebellion.
Simples Solution: Let all Zimbos regardless of their origin live together in unity and develop the nation- wherever they are!!